pakistan's interest in the taliban in that, you know, what is the situation that, as you see it with our maybe pulling back a little bit? >> that's a serious issue to be considered, especially to... it will have implications on pakistan. if you quit in 2014, whatever has been declared, obviously the best strategy for the taliban or the enemy, al qaeda and taliban, is to lie low, let time pass, and then rise again. so declaring... giving a timeline, i have always been saying that it ought to be effected, what effects do we want to create? you can't have it time related because then you'll be in the hands of the enemy, i would say. and if you leave in 2014 without stabilizing afghanistan, what will happen then? we need to visualize. >> well, the problem is... the difficulty i think for america is afghanistan hasn't been stable since, i guess, hannibal.